Well said and I couldn’t agree more about the war with Hezbollah. That was my thesis in the national war college and I still stand by my assessment that this will be a bloody and protracted conflict.
I think you are too quick to forgive the IDF on this one. The World Central Kitchen convoy was traveling on an IDF-approved corridor, in clearly-marked WCK convoy of 3 vehicles. An IDF drone struck them one. after. the. other. 3 separate strikes. That is not "accidentally" anything.
Why don't you do a deep dive into drone strikes for the last 20 years before you read one article and accuse people of murder. That's really grotesque.
Did the US intentionally target the Doctors Without Borders clinic in Kunduz in 2015? I want to hear your explanation since I can tell you've read so deeply about the topic.
Dude, did you read your own article? The Kunduz hospital strike WAS an accident. Compounded by errors.
"The independent report determined that the U.S. attack on the trauma center was the direct result of human error, compounded by systems and procedural failures. “The U.S. forces directly involved in this incident did not know the targeted compound was the [Doctors Without Borders] trauma center,” Campbell said. “The medical facility was misidentified as a target by U.S. personnel who believed they were striking a different building several hundred meters away where there were reports of combatants.”"
...
"“But when the aircrew entered the coordinates into their fire control systems, the coordinates correlated to an open field over 300 meters from the NDS headquarters,” Campbell said. “This mistake happened because the aircraft was several miles beyond its normal orbit and its sensors were degraded at that distance. The investigating officer found that the aircrew visually located the closest, largest building near the open field, which we now know was the [Doctors Without Borders] trauma center.”
The physical description of the NDS headquarters building roughly matched the description of the trauma center as seen by the aircrew. “At night, the aircrew was unable to identify any signs of the hospital’s protected status,” the general said. “Tragically, this misidentification continued throughout the remainder of the operation.”"
So yeah, check your fucking ego before firing off snarking replies. Yes, I know quite a bit about targeting cycles, ISR, and weaponeering. The IDF strike on WCK was nothing like the Kunduz incident. The vehicles were clearly marked. They were literally in communication with the IDF *while they were under attack.* There was some staggering incompetence here, unless it was deliberate malice.
Now I have to wonder if your Morning Shots piece was written before or after this exchange. Is it a coincidence that you quoted the same Haaretz article that I did? At any rate, the Morning Shots commentary was more was I was hoping to see from you. Thanks.
That proves absolutely nothing. Firing consecutive strikes does not prove an intention to kill aid workers, which is getting pretty close to a blood libel. Have you ever done drone strikes before? I ask because I've been involved in them. If I aimed to kill a group of people with a sniper rifle and my intel gave me a bad target, but I killed all three of them anyway, it wouldn't prove anything at all. If there's proof that the IDF intentionally killed aid workers, then people should go to jail. But there hasn't been any proof. And what you offer proves nothing other than the IDF needs to fix its mistakes and continue. Why would the IDF intentionally kill aid workers? Seriously? What's the point? They would obviously know that it would create a huge backlash. What's the angle here? Why do it?
Yeah, it does get pretty close to blood libel, doesn't it? And some of them were Americans. Maybe someone didn't want Gazans to get fed. Who knows? Of course there is no proof yet. I never said there was. All I meant was that you are too quick to write this one off to the fog of war. "Fix its mistakes and continue?" This goes way beyond that platitude. Heads need to roll.
You sure seem awfully quick to write this off as a mere accident. Fat-fingering coordinates for a JDAM is an accident. Deliberately striking multiple, clearly-marked aid vehicles surely warrants withholding judgment for at least a little while, doesn't it?
The comparison between Haqqani/ISI and LH/QF is an apt one. Very similar overlaps in those sphere of influence campaigns. The ironic part is that the Iraqi gov is now a de facto extension of Iranian policy now too, and that’s a problem we created ourselves when we got rid of the authoritarian Sunni government under Saddam. “Tradeoffs” I suppose, but now we have to live with them.
And yes, so many Americans do not understand the fogginess of intel-based strike ops because so few in this country ever serve in its military, so this is something of an expected sentiment in post-draft America at this point.
Well said and I couldn’t agree more about the war with Hezbollah. That was my thesis in the national war college and I still stand by my assessment that this will be a bloody and protracted conflict.
I think you are too quick to forgive the IDF on this one. The World Central Kitchen convoy was traveling on an IDF-approved corridor, in clearly-marked WCK convoy of 3 vehicles. An IDF drone struck them one. after. the. other. 3 separate strikes. That is not "accidentally" anything.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-bombed-wck-aid-convoy-3-times-targeting-armed-hamas-member-who-wasnt-there/0000018e-9e75-d764-adff-9eff29360000?v=1712234651855
Why don't you do a deep dive into drone strikes for the last 20 years before you read one article and accuse people of murder. That's really grotesque.
Did the US intentionally target the Doctors Without Borders clinic in Kunduz in 2015? I want to hear your explanation since I can tell you've read so deeply about the topic.
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/631304/campbell-kunduz-hospital-attack-tragic-avoidable-accident/
Dude, did you read your own article? The Kunduz hospital strike WAS an accident. Compounded by errors.
"The independent report determined that the U.S. attack on the trauma center was the direct result of human error, compounded by systems and procedural failures. “The U.S. forces directly involved in this incident did not know the targeted compound was the [Doctors Without Borders] trauma center,” Campbell said. “The medical facility was misidentified as a target by U.S. personnel who believed they were striking a different building several hundred meters away where there were reports of combatants.”"
...
"“But when the aircrew entered the coordinates into their fire control systems, the coordinates correlated to an open field over 300 meters from the NDS headquarters,” Campbell said. “This mistake happened because the aircraft was several miles beyond its normal orbit and its sensors were degraded at that distance. The investigating officer found that the aircrew visually located the closest, largest building near the open field, which we now know was the [Doctors Without Borders] trauma center.”
The physical description of the NDS headquarters building roughly matched the description of the trauma center as seen by the aircrew. “At night, the aircrew was unable to identify any signs of the hospital’s protected status,” the general said. “Tragically, this misidentification continued throughout the remainder of the operation.”"
So yeah, check your fucking ego before firing off snarking replies. Yes, I know quite a bit about targeting cycles, ISR, and weaponeering. The IDF strike on WCK was nothing like the Kunduz incident. The vehicles were clearly marked. They were literally in communication with the IDF *while they were under attack.* There was some staggering incompetence here, unless it was deliberate malice.
Yes. It was an accident. That’s the point.
You have a different definition of accident than I do, it would seem.
Now I have to wonder if your Morning Shots piece was written before or after this exchange. Is it a coincidence that you quoted the same Haaretz article that I did? At any rate, the Morning Shots commentary was more was I was hoping to see from you. Thanks.
That proves absolutely nothing. Firing consecutive strikes does not prove an intention to kill aid workers, which is getting pretty close to a blood libel. Have you ever done drone strikes before? I ask because I've been involved in them. If I aimed to kill a group of people with a sniper rifle and my intel gave me a bad target, but I killed all three of them anyway, it wouldn't prove anything at all. If there's proof that the IDF intentionally killed aid workers, then people should go to jail. But there hasn't been any proof. And what you offer proves nothing other than the IDF needs to fix its mistakes and continue. Why would the IDF intentionally kill aid workers? Seriously? What's the point? They would obviously know that it would create a huge backlash. What's the angle here? Why do it?
Yeah, it does get pretty close to blood libel, doesn't it? And some of them were Americans. Maybe someone didn't want Gazans to get fed. Who knows? Of course there is no proof yet. I never said there was. All I meant was that you are too quick to write this one off to the fog of war. "Fix its mistakes and continue?" This goes way beyond that platitude. Heads need to roll.
Yes. Because what I’ve never called for is accountability in war. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
You sure seem awfully quick to write this off as a mere accident. Fat-fingering coordinates for a JDAM is an accident. Deliberately striking multiple, clearly-marked aid vehicles surely warrants withholding judgment for at least a little while, doesn't it?
Go read a book.
Apply your penchant for criticism and accountability to the Israeli military the same way you do ours.
The comparison between Haqqani/ISI and LH/QF is an apt one. Very similar overlaps in those sphere of influence campaigns. The ironic part is that the Iraqi gov is now a de facto extension of Iranian policy now too, and that’s a problem we created ourselves when we got rid of the authoritarian Sunni government under Saddam. “Tradeoffs” I suppose, but now we have to live with them.
And yes, so many Americans do not understand the fogginess of intel-based strike ops because so few in this country ever serve in its military, so this is something of an expected sentiment in post-draft America at this point.
You need to be advising someone. If only the powers that be notice.
Your analysis and explanation is invaluable. Thank you for making it understandable to us civilians.
Lord help us all. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻